Laymen and the Layman

Howdy r/zen, welcome to my first OP in awhile.

This OP is a response to a recent post of u/astroemi’s about work and food, which raised questions about what we do for work, the kind of decisions students of Zen face when it comes to supporting themselves, and mused about how one could navigate a path through life where the study of Ch’an was the sole focus.

Which is the goal for some students of Zen here, so I think we should be allowed to have conversations about it without constantly being heckled, or insulted by corporatists who’ve been brainwashed into thinking servitude is the Way, and that anyone who speaks of liberation is a liar, fraud, or hypocrite.^1

(Har, Har—threw that zinger in to get your attention!)

In any case, we are all lay people here in that we are either from the lay world or still work in the lay world—as none of us here in r/zen, ar least that I’m aware of, are instituitionalized monastics.

This means that we have faced many of the same questions and challenges in our Zen study—to wit: the challenges of lay persons—as well enjoyed as the benefits (freedom, independence, opprotunity, being forced to learn on our own, etc and so on). Yep. none of us were lucky enough to be dropped off at seventeen—after having been raised with such a fate in mind—fully prepared for our study and life, and handed off to an economically secure existence under the tutelage of a Zen master renowned for their teaching.

No. Most of us have had to make our own way through a hardscrabble economy predicated on lies, war, violence, and oppression—and then, after all that work and trouble, the best the world has to offer us for Zen study is ewk and r/zen.^2

And so we are all lay people. And half (or a lot more than half) of the differences (and conflicts) that arise between us here in conversation, as students of Zen, seem to arise from our different locations and experiences in the lay world.

One thing I have found endlessly entertaining, for example, is how poorly urban (and maybe especially suburban) lay people grok *anything* about rural people or rural life. This has nothing to do with Zen study. It is a direct and obvious artifact of mainstream culture, and the real and clear divide between urban lay existence and culture, and rural lay existence and culture. It causes *no end* of conflict—which of course is highly useful when it comes both to conversation and the study of Zen.

Another curio we have to deal with here in r/zen, as lay people, is of course when folks of certain professions try to establish the tools of their own professional training as the be-all and end-all of allowable tools for the study of Zen. (For example, people witn master’s degrees attempting to institute middle brow scholarship as some sort of yard stick—whether for measuring something or hitting people in the yard with, same same.)

But you will never see me try to establish the tools and tricks of Acting as a criteria for the study of Zen—this I promise you—because none of you have the chops, the determination, or the work ethic required to keep up. (Not to mention all the emotional and psychological damage that academic bootlickers, desk jockeys, and your average corporatist would be forced to endure if they were ever asked to Act like an adult—let alone something interesting like a pirate, parrot owner, or truly kind person!)

No—I know that wouldn’t be fair at all. Those who the economy has crippled with Freudian psychology—which they actually use to curate some concept of “identity” they have, rather than to make an audience laugh, “ooh”, “ahh”, or shriek in outrage or disgust—simply cannot be asked to study Zen the way an Actor does. **It would not be fair.**

And I am not the sort to force my own standards of work and comportment on others. Nope. We can leave that sort of thing to the corporatists, I think it’s safe to say.

So today’s post is about the Layman and his family. I want to get to the bottom of this question astroemi raised about work, and food, and I want to hear the experiences and views of other students of Zen and lay people. It is an essential question for the study of Zen for all lay persons: “how do we study Zen, what do we do, how do we feed ourselves?”

The Layman’s story is of course rife with pertinence (although for those of us who are rural, it is also worth pointing out that Layman P’ang was an urban/town lay person, rather than a rural one like Huineng.)

Here’s what I did, though, in order to focus on the lay nature of this post, and bring attention to the fact that many of our differences are in fact the differences between where we are located in the lay world: I filmed and acted in three videos for the post, but I filmed them in reverse order (ie pointer was filmed in the evening, the last / main video in the morning) over the course of the day, as I was looking at these passages and simultaneously engaging in (spirited) conversation with u/sje397 and u/fingerstyping (and to a lesser extent, that Gorgeous Agnostic fella).

So the videos were filmed concurrently / during / as a part of conversations with those folks, on subjects pertaining to our respective placements in the economy as lay people—and, even though *they* are unaware of it, the videos, and this subject of layperson-ness, are directly related to *what it is I am trying to discuss about the study Ch’an*.^3

Here’s the pointer, on how *challeging* it is to be a lay actor surrounded by lay bureaucrats:

[“That can’t be real! (Lay-ing it on thick)”](https://vimeo.com/758153033) (10 min)

And now to the texts! (I’m going to use screengrabs for some passages in order to save space. All quotes in this OP taken from *The Sayings of Layman P’ang* translated by James Green.)

[A reminder that the Layman *did* go to Ch’an Masters for instruction](https://i.imgur.com/fIWbZ9t.jpg)^4

[A reminder that the word Mahayana doesn’t signify religious beliefs, but an actual culture that undergoes historical change and observes and records them ](https://i.imgur.com/bhV39ma.jpg)

[A reminder of what rural lay Ch’an masters are like, and how they are treated by corrupt bureaucracies](https://i.imgur.com/fWteMq8.jpg)

[Uh-Oh—Lay “Buddhism”?](https://i.imgur.com/aAj9au1.jpg)

Worth pointing out that this introduction began by explaining how the layman “is important” partially because he has been popular amongst Soto and Rinzai Japanese zen buddhists. I think that the (habitual) focus of modern Soto/Rinzai on their own weird view of life is evident in this quote. While I do find P’ang’s approach radically novel, what I like most is that he carved out a *new space* for his family *between* their original lay life (as towns people / merchants) and monastic life. They didn’t take the robe, but they *did* in fact leave home and travel around to Ch’an communities, and devoted themselves to the study of Ch’an exclusively—very independently!

It was this activity and pursuit of Ch’an that made Layman P’ang a Ch’an Master, obviously—rather than a layman who studied Ch’an in the midst of lay existence (being a merchant). This is obviuosly integral to the Layman, as well as his daughter and family, and their placement in the lineage.

Of course there were tens of thousands of Ch’an lay persons at the time, all over society—urban, rural, middle class, poor, wealthy, working class…lots and lots of them. I’m sure a bunch were enlightened.

But obviously P’ang is unique in the historical record and the literature for being a Layman and *finding a manner in which a lay person could leave home without being a monastic*—which had the effect of *allowing him to pursue Ch’an and meet Ch’an Masters*, and ultimately *causing him and his daughter to be widely recognized as Ch’an masters themselves*.

(Huineng, the rural lay Ch’an master, of course also left his humble life as a woodcutter to pursue Ch’an exclusively.)

How about we carry a little water, as an intermission? Sorry to make you work, but u/sje397 owes me some spring water, and I’m afraid I’m dragging you all along:

[“Footsie, with a sea nymph.”](https://vimeo.com/758182671/747ca0818b) (5 min)

And *now* we can get to stacking wood!

>The Layman once said: The world over, Men without wives, Women lacking husbands, Face to face, Speaking of what is unborn.20

> Lingzhao(762-808) Layman Pang (740-808) and his wife were both Zen adepts, and their daughter, Lingzhao, surpassed them both. Lingzhao and her father were very close and often studied together and debated each other. When Lingzhao was an adult, she and her father went on pilgrimages together.

—from some website

These quotes are for u/GreenSagua. They asked that I “provide a source” for common *anecdotal* knowledge I was relating about P’ang and his family. I declined, and they said something like “I prefer sources blah blah blah”—and even asked another user to comment and serve as an authority for them.

I just bring it up to point out how dumb that is, what an idiotic system has been created in this subreddit by and for bureaucrat laymen, and how it encourages ignormamouses to gobble stale dregs they can’t identify themselves.

This is a major r/zen issue between different types of lay people. I don’t have a computer. I don’t have a desk. I gave away 90% of my personal library. My only tool is a cell phone. I don’t use spreadsheets. I don’t keep a master list of texts nearby I can easily search. I can’t even *read* the lineage chart. I am not here trying to impress or teach people with my ability to quote middle-brow academics or proivde wiki links or share PDFs. I am here for conversation and literary Ch’an study.

Bureaucrats who claim one must have bureaucratic tools and resources to study Ch’an, and students of Zen who believe that, are morons full stop.

Oddly, u/GreenSagua even reffered to the Soto/Rinzai Japanese influenced introduction to *The Sayings of Layman P’ang* in our discussion…while not seeming to be familiar with the prologue of the text—found a few pages later—which is an actual Chinese source about the Layman, from the Ming dynasty edition of his sayings which the book is the translation of.

> “At the family residence in the southern part of the city, there was a cottage near the main house where they practiced meditation. For many years the Layman’s whole family practiced the Way.5 The cottage was called Wu-k’ung Cottage (Goku-an).6 Later, the property was given away to be used as a temple rather than a residence, and was renamed Neng-jen Temple (Nojin-ji).”

Family residence? Gifted and converted to a Ch’an temple.

> “At the beginning of the Chen-yuan period,7 the family’s valuables, worth an untold amount, were transported by boat up the Hsiang River8 to the right side of Lake Tung-t’ing. There the boat was scuttled.9”

Worldly goods? *Intentionally scuttled in order to pursue rhe study of Ch’an*.

>“After this, the family’s existence was hand to mouth. The Layman and his wife, with their son and daughter, labored together morning and night making bamboo utensils and selling them in the market.”

Hand-to-mouth. Working for food.

>“The Layman first went to practice at Shih-t’ou’s place, where all barriers suddenly melted away for him. Later, he went to see Ma-tsu and delved deeper into his fundamental consciousness.11 Conflicts merged into unity and everything was in accordance with the Way. His profound eloquence, like that of Manjushri,12 formed a complete circle with his actual demonstrations.”

The activities, experiences, and characteristics of a lay Ch’an Master studying and then demonstrating Ch’an.

> “At the beginning of the Yuan-he period,13 the Layman camped out on a cliff in the vicinity of Hsiang-yang. The place was twelve miles south of Mount Lu-men14 and is now called Layman’s Rock.”

Outside-the-box sheltering.